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General Discussion / Re: Wisdom, Sophos, Prajna
« Last post by xavierhn on September 12, 2017, 06:12:06 pm »
Here is a excerpt from Heidegger's Lecture What is Philosophy? to aid in our thinking about 'wisdom' and 'philosophy'.

Paragraph 22

The Greek word φιλόσοφία goes back to the word φιλόσοφος. This word is originally an adjective like φιλάργυρος, loving silver, like φιλότιμος, loving honor. The word φιλόσοφος was presumably coined by Heraklitus. This indicates that for Heraklitus φιλόσοφία did not yet exist. An ἀνὴρ φιλόσοφος is not a "philosophical" man. The Greek adjective φιλόσοφος expresses something completely different from the adjective philosophical. An ἀνὴρ φιλόσοφος is ὅς φιλεῖ τὸ σοφόν, he who loves the σοφόν; φιλεῖν, to love, signifies here, in the heraclitean sense, ὀμολογεῖν, to speak in the way in which λόγος speaks, in correspondence with the λόγος. This correspondence is in accord with the σοφόν. Accordance is ἁρμονία. That one being reciprocally unites itself with another, that both are originally united to each other because they are at each other's disposal--this ἁρμονία is the distinctive feature of φιλεῖν, of "loving" in the Heraclitean sense.

There's an interesting line from Aristotle Book I of the metaphysics (982 20-24). Aristotle characterises sophon (the wise) and sophias (wisdom) as a knowledge of what is most present in all things "panta ta hypokeimena"
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General Discussion / Re: Wisdom, Sophos, Prajna
« Last post by xavierhn on September 10, 2017, 11:38:59 pm »
With the Heraclitus fragments I think we should update the English translation to reflect the Greek. For instance, the use of 'wise' (σοφόν) in the four fragments (35, 41, 78, 108) are not equivocal. Barnes translation in fragments (41) and (78) are very misleading and, I would say, erroneous translations. Since in (41) the word for 'opinion' is used not 'wise', and likewise, in (78) the word 'wise' is used and not 'wisdom'.

Heraclitus

(B35) Men that love wisdom [φιλοσόφους]must be acquainted with very many things indeed.

(B41) Wisdom is one thing [έν τό σοφόν]. It is to know the thought by which all things are steered through all things

(B78) The way of man has no wisdom [γνώμας], but that of the gods has.

(B108) Of all whose discourses I have heard, there is not one who attains to understanding that wisdom [σοφόν] is apart from all.

Just from this we can see that there is no clear idea of 'wisdom' in Heraclitus. The closest thing we have to an affirmative word on this, is 41 which does not have 'wisdom' [σοφια] but again the adjective 'wise'. I think Mitchell, from our provisional work thus far, it's safer to say that the adjective wise features, with importance, however, such importance rests not on itself alone, but, rather, in relationship to something else. What this something else is, a safer path for us, can be gathered from chasing up leads on 'entirety' [παντα] and 'language' [λογος] in relation to opposedness, 'opposites'.



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General Discussion / Re: Wisdom, Sophos, Prajna
« Last post by StircrazyReality on September 10, 2017, 05:14:54 pm »
Religious Universalism and Wisdom Universalism

I have been talking to a few friends who sympathise with religious universalism. This however is centred on 'wisdom is universal' (or enlightenment is universal) and is not centred on 'religious institutions are universal'. The thought that we came to us was that the Buddha and Jesus Christ can be more easily compared than Christianity and Buddhism. Buddha and Jesus were wise. Those who followed these figures were not wise, but saw that their teachers were wise. The followers necessarily interpreted the wisdom (to bring it in contact with the mundane, the world of form, the finite). The religious institutions that were founded on these figures are built on an interpretation of wisdom, and not on wisdom itself. Wisdom is 'one'. These interpretations are not 'one'.
 
I am not completely sold on religious universalism. What are your views on religious universalism?
 
What are the alternatives to religious universalism?
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Reading Groups, General / MOVED: Presocratics
« Last post by StircrazyReality on September 10, 2017, 04:59:02 pm »
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Descartes / Re: Descartes Reading Group
« Last post by xavierhn on September 10, 2017, 02:40:55 pm »
Descartes like Parmenides and Plato, to a lesser extent, through their work inaugurated a ‘beginning’ for philosophy. What all three thinkers share, qua beginning, is in laying bare what must be experienced of ‘truth’ in order for philosophising to genuinely occur. For Parmenides, this was the experience that beings are; for Plato, the allegory of the cave; and Descartes the cogito. We call this essential experience, i.e., the beginning, as that which comes to determine ahead of all inquiry how ‘truth’ itself is to be experienced: aletheia (Parmenides), idea (Plato), self-certainty (Descartes). More specifically with Descartes, the beginning of modern philosophy is marked with him in how ‘truth’ (veritas) undergoes a change in meaning, from ‘correspondence’ (adequatio) to mean self-certainty, along with an ‘aim’ of philosophy, to ground the sciences in a single foundation. The cogito contains both changes (self-certainty and grounding) in how philosophising for the first time in history now centres on a ‘method’ (methodos).
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General Discussion / Re: Wisdom, Sophos, Prajna
« Last post by StircrazyReality on September 09, 2017, 12:10:03 pm »
Is there a separation between wisdom and love of wisdom?

I see in Heraclitus and the secondary source on Pythagoras that men cannot be wise, as they are flawed.

"...no man is wise, being human..." (Diodorus Siculus referencing Pythagoras's words)

"The way of man has no wisdom, but that of the gods has." (B78 Heraclitus)

Perhaps men can love wisdom, but cannot be wise. Perhaps men can approach wisdom to be somewhat wise, but can not be absolutely wise.

Can one not be wise and love wisdom?
       That is loving what one is not in possession of
Can one be wise and not love wisdom?
       That is possessing it and not having love for it.
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